Bonus: Ukraine's Little Bullet
BewilderBeasts!March 17, 2024x
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00:24:0016.53 MB

Bonus: Ukraine's Little Bullet

This Patreon Exclusive Episode first aired May 16, 2022

Patron started his life in entertainment by illustrating how dogs can be trained for search work. And now, he's employed by the government. He found over 200 bombs in the town of Chimigov since February. Let's meet Patron, the hero dog who has a similar entertainer-turned-hero storyline as Ukrainian President Zelensky himself.

(Thank you, Christy, for the suggestion!)
 https://www.insider.com/patron-dog-sniffing-for-bombs-in-ukraine-2022-4

https://mymodernmet.com/patron-bomb-sniffing-dog-hero/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tene3h/the_pups_name_is_patron_cartridge/

https://english.nv.ua/life/social-media-craze-about-ukrainian-sapper-dog-patron-50235197.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61099213

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/the-jack-russell-terrier-detecting-bombs-in-ukraine-138688069962

@Patron_dns/instagram https://www.yahoo.com/now/meet-patron-dog-loves-cheese-173647625.html

https://www.usip.org/public-education-new/dogs-detecting-landmines-building-peacehttps://www.theverge.com/2022/5/2/23053944/russian-troops-steal-millions-farm-equipment-ukraine-disabled-remotely-john-deere

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/27/22953398/go-read-this-researchers-google-maps-russian-troops-ukraine-invasion

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682 - the intentionally targeted misinformation attacks and straight-up lies in Russian state media - a common war tactic to get people on your side for terrible things, we see it here, too, will continue to persuade those who consume Russian media to believe this isn’t real. The attacks by Putin, using Russian tanks, bombs, and guns on the Ukrainian people is real. And a powerful interview, mandatory reading, I think, from Time Magazine with Volodymyr Zelenski: https://time.com/6171277/volodymyr-zelensky-interview-ukraine-war/

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Intro/Outtro music: Tiptoe Out The Back - Dan Liebowicz
Interstitial Music: MK2
Additional music: Freesound.com, Pixabay.org 

Instagram: @EggAndNugget (chicken stan account) or @MelissaMcCueMcGrath
Website: BewilderBeastsPod.com
Support the Show and get stuff! Patreon.com/BewilderbeastsPod
Your host, Melissa McCue-McGrath is an author, dog trainer, and behavior consultant in Southern Maine. She'll talk about dogs all day if you let her. You've been warned :)


[00:00:00] This is BewilderBeasts, an infotainment show dedicated to inspiring curiosity for all

[00:00:13] ages by investigating the ways animals intersect at humanity.

[00:00:17] I am not a historian, an ethylogist, a researcher, a scientist, a zoologist, a trained audio engineer

[00:00:23] or an expert in, well, anything.

[00:00:26] Y'all, I'm lucky if I can remember to put my clean laundry in the dryer before it gets

[00:00:30] funky.

[00:00:31] And while I make every effort to present things as accurately as I can with a fun flair,

[00:00:36] I'm going to mess up!

[00:00:37] And that's okay.

[00:00:38] I hope I've given you a nice place to jump off from on your own adventures into curiosity

[00:00:42] or at the very least, I've given you the key to when your next round of trivia.

[00:00:56] Hello and welcome to BewilderBeasts.

[00:01:10] I'm your host Melissa McKee-McGrath, recording 7,095 kilometers from Kiev, Ukraine.

[00:01:15] Today, we are doing this!

[00:01:19] Let's go to Ukraine and be the tiniest, mightiest little bomb detection popper.

[00:01:24] Let's go!

[00:01:42] Hi, Hope, patrons.

[00:01:44] This is a wonderful suggestion from Kristi.

[00:01:47] Another one.

[00:01:48] Thank you so much, Kristi.

[00:01:49] She always has the best suggestions for this show.

[00:01:51] I am so close to summer I can taste it, though I'm still wearing kind of flannel and

[00:01:57] warm things.

[00:01:58] I just know that warmth is around the corner, though.

[00:02:01] And I am ready for it.

[00:02:04] And I hope you are too.

[00:02:06] Just a reminder, though, before the sun starts peeping out for you, do you have your

[00:02:10] allow, your allergy meds, sunscreen, big floppy hat?

[00:02:14] Cool good, because I forgot about all of those things when it hit 55 degrees and still

[00:02:18] ended up with a sunburn, so get that stuff ready and prepped.

[00:02:22] OK, with all that said, let's get on with today's episode.

[00:02:25] Again, thanks Kristi.

[00:02:26] I hope you guys like it.

[00:02:35] Two years ago, Misha brought home a puppy named Patron from a coworker as a gift to his

[00:02:40] son.

[00:02:41] He then took him to work with him because, you know, bringing Doug's to work is pretty

[00:02:43] fun, right?

[00:02:44] And it's a perk of his job!

[00:02:47] Misha works and has worked since 2014 in the Ukrainian government.

[00:02:52] The arm of the government that uses animals like Patron to find landmines, explosives,

[00:02:56] and more.

[00:02:58] So I wanted to know a little bit more about this bomb doggy, so I started digging.

[00:03:03] And well listen number one, do not start your research in Reddit.

[00:03:08] Well, okay, so I first wanted to know what Patron meant in Ukrainian.

[00:03:13] And I got…

[00:03:15] This helpful, not helpful list.

[00:03:17] According to the comments of a Reddit thread, Patron can mean cartridge.

[00:03:22] I initially thought printer, but I guess it's a bullet thing.

[00:03:25] Comment number two, if it's from the same root as the Swedish Petron, same similar word

[00:03:30] in German, Afrikaans and Finnish, then it means the whole package.

[00:03:34] It's a word for unified ammunition, bullet casing primer propellant from the French

[00:03:39] Petron which means model or pattern.

[00:03:42] In English that's cartridge shell ammunition and it's something translated as bullet.

[00:03:46] But bullet is a figure of speech and a cynic dog in English like saying…

[00:03:51] Okay, so it means bullet.

[00:03:58] That's what I'm getting from that whole thing.

[00:04:01] Okay, so the third suggestion was tequila in Spanish, which…

[00:04:05] Okay, whoever wrote that, that's not Ukrainian.

[00:04:10] And it's not even the same reference book let alone the same page.

[00:04:14] Number four, little boss dog.

[00:04:16] Okay, I've in my line of work met many Jack Russell Terriers and this totally tracks.

[00:04:21] Oh god, this track's so hard.

[00:04:26] Number five, tuna cans.

[00:04:28] Okay, this person might not have been on the right thread or might have had too much

[00:04:32] of the Spanish tequila before jumping in on this conversation.

[00:04:36] Number six, round as in round bullets?

[00:04:40] Okay, I think this person might be reaching its straws.

[00:04:43] Oh, reddit.

[00:04:45] I honestly don't know why I expected anything different.

[00:04:49] But what I do know what this means is very good boy in bewilder bastion.

[00:04:54] As Petron is a wonderful little Jack Russell Terrier who is tearing it up in the Russian

[00:04:59] attacks against Ukraine.

[00:05:01] I'm going to go with the translation brought by the new voice for Ukraine site which

[00:05:05] is probably where I should have started my research to begin with.

[00:05:08] Petron, according to the English translation of their website means bullet.

[00:05:13] So that's what I'm going with and I hope you do too.

[00:05:16] Though it could be tuna cans, it's not quite the same punch.

[00:05:20] Okay, we now know how to say his name and what it means but who is he and why are we talking

[00:05:27] about him on a Patreon episode?

[00:05:29] Well, Petron went to work with Misha that day to be trained.

[00:05:33] Not necessarily to protect God and his country from bombs and landmines but to do little

[00:05:38] demonstrations and public service performances.

[00:05:40] Basically to show how these dogs can be trained and to do remarkable tasks.

[00:05:45] I have done this in my actual line of work.

[00:05:47] You've heard me speak many times about my job as a professional dog trainer.

[00:05:51] And the last thing I got to do before the COVID lockdowns of 2020 was take my dog kept

[00:05:55] in love, his real name, to the museum of science to show hundreds of kids every weekend

[00:06:00] and their families how they can teach their pets to find specific things in their home.

[00:06:05] But when the tanks and the bombs and the guns and the Russian army invaded Ukraine a few

[00:06:09] months ago, everything changed.

[00:06:12] And instead of fun time demonstrations with a little dog fighting empty canisters, Petron

[00:06:17] went to real work.

[00:06:19] In a way, Petron took a similar course of careers, Ukrainian President and certified

[00:06:23] Hathi Volatomir Zolinsky both started an entertainment and found themselves in a position

[00:06:28] of service.

[00:06:29] And as soon as the bomb started to fly and the people needed to flee and the working

[00:06:33] to them, they did not run away.

[00:06:35] They ran through the destruction to help people.

[00:06:39] Petron has moved successfully from entertainer to landmine finder much like the bees in the

[00:06:45] rafts that we have already discovered and discussed in earlier episodes of Be Willterbeast

[00:06:49] but he's also the mascot of the state emergency service of Ukraine.

[00:06:54] Y'all listen to this.

[00:06:56] That emergency service is the Ukrainian arm of the government that deals with, well, big

[00:07:02] civil emergencies, evacuations due to natural disasters or maybe a neighboring country invading

[00:07:08] with tanks.

[00:07:09] Emergency preparation in response, so sending rescue groups to large populations of people

[00:07:13] after earthquakes, large fires and well, a neighboring country invading your country

[00:07:19] with tanks.

[00:07:20] And back when Ukraine was part of the USSR which we now generally think of as broadly

[00:07:27] Russia-ish, the Chernobyl disaster.

[00:07:31] What is now the state emergency service of Ukraine was tasked with rescue response and

[00:07:36] cleanup efforts after the largest, most deadly and most dangerous nuclear reactor explosion

[00:07:42] in history.

[00:07:44] The initial emergency response together with a decontamination of the environment involved

[00:07:50] more than 500,000 people and it cost an estimated 18 billion Soviet rubles.

[00:07:57] That's roughly about $68 billion in 2019 money.

[00:08:03] Elon Musk himself could buy Twitter and still have money left over to make a significant

[00:08:09] dent in those numbers, but he won't.

[00:08:14] That agency, the one that cleaned up after Chernobyl, that's who Petron the dog works for.

[00:08:21] And in fact when you look up Petron on Wikipedia because he has a Wikipedia page, under employer

[00:08:26] it says, the state emergency service of Ukraine.

[00:08:31] He is specifically the mascot of his unit in Chemigov.

[00:08:34] It's unclear what his daily take home pay is in terms of Ukrainian dollar-dollar bills

[00:08:38] but we do know that he works for cheese.

[00:08:42] I also work for cheese.

[00:08:45] Hmm, cheese.

[00:08:47] Okay so here's how it works.

[00:08:50] Petron detects bomb odor and this could be explosive material or the specific plastics

[00:08:55] used or the wee bits of metal used in bombs, which is honestly why metal detectors are

[00:09:00] not necessarily the best tool for finding landmines.

[00:09:04] They are usually made out of plastic, making it impossible for many of these metal detectors

[00:09:09] to pick up but these dogs can hold in their head up to 1700 odors, compounds, sense associated

[00:09:17] with explosives and compounds and debt cord all of it.

[00:09:22] That is a whole roll of decks of sense and these dogs can just do it better than no other.

[00:09:27] Most explosive detection dogs will sit at a source like, hey buddy, it's here.

[00:09:32] Fuck very, very carefully.

[00:09:36] But he's a dog, won't he set off the bomb?

[00:09:38] Isn't that why we use landmine detection rats and bees and all these other animals?

[00:09:42] Well, true.

[00:09:44] And I'm not sure how Petron is specifically trained.

[00:09:48] Many dogs trained on scent can give one of two kinds of alert.

[00:09:52] There's an active alert with digging, barking, jumping, a big performance or a passive

[00:09:57] alert sitting patiently by the source of the big boom smell.

[00:10:01] An in my experience and all of the explosive detection folk that I know they train a passive

[00:10:06] alert for what I hope is an obvious reason.

[00:10:10] You don't really want a dog digging and jumping on a bomb.

[00:10:15] But every video I see of Petron he's digging in the dirt and he's jumping around.

[00:10:20] And luckily this mighty dog is tiny.

[00:10:24] He's a jack Russell Terry, meaning he likely weighs between 13 and 17 pounds.

[00:10:28] And according to my favorite website, the measure of things, that's basically a dog

[00:10:32] the size of a medium sized cat, hilarious comparison, two bricks, four human brains, 17

[00:10:40] hands of soup, 30 hamsters which is just too many hamsters.

[00:10:44] It's two and a half chihuahuaas or one fifth the size of a Dalmatian.

[00:10:47] These are both dog breeds.

[00:10:49] So Petron is basically the size of a bread box or as heavy or less heavy than two other

[00:10:54] kinds of dog but almost the size of a docksand which is yet another dog.

[00:10:59] Okay, so if you're into kangaroo math though, ten jack Russell's equals one kangaroo for

[00:11:04] my Aussie friends.

[00:11:08] Even that you only need a minimum of 11 pounds of pressure to set off a bomb, he is likely

[00:11:13] between 13 and 17 pounds.

[00:11:16] That is cutting it very close.

[00:11:19] But I'm not his handler.

[00:11:20] I'm not his trainer.

[00:11:22] I do not know this dog.

[00:11:24] I have worked in enough media to know though when there's a camera they often will have

[00:11:28] a trainer or handler have the dog do something more visual for what's called B-roll.

[00:11:34] This is something that when you're watching a news broadcast that you see a lot of action

[00:11:37] and the reporter is talking over it so maybe what they have him do is jump around bark

[00:11:42] and dig for the B-roll and then in real life he just walks over and sits or points or is

[00:11:47] just like, I don't like this and runs the other direction then they know where to go.

[00:11:52] Look for their bomb clearing stuff.

[00:11:55] But I do know that he is very successful at what he does.

[00:11:58] His team is safe so whatever he's doing I am not judging it at all.

[00:12:03] The suggestion though is that his small size makes it easier for him to navigate smaller

[00:12:07] and tighter spaces to find these buried bombs or his Misha calls them little presents

[00:12:12] from Russia.

[00:12:13] And to date the total number is a secret as to how many bombs Patron has found.

[00:12:20] But it is confirmed that in two months since the Russian military invaded Ukraine and

[00:12:26] attacked a country which is exactly what they did under the orders of an actual maniac

[00:12:32] and dictator Vladimir Putin Patron has found at least 200 unexploded landmines and underground

[00:12:39] bombs in his city of Chemagov.

[00:12:42] 200 since February in one city a city that is effectively leveled.

[00:12:50] Sure, Ukrainian forces were able to push the Russians out of this particular city but

[00:12:56] not before whistling bombs landed and leveled the city.

[00:13:01] The residents, the families, the kids everyone had to flee with their dogs tied to their backs,

[00:13:06] all seeking borders to cross just to get out alive with whatever they could carry.

[00:13:11] Now imagine coming back to this to rebuild only to hit these bombs lying in wait.

[00:13:20] And 200 of them.

[00:13:23] Even walking through your town and you can walk safely through your streets, to your school

[00:13:27] which is still standing to your favorite McDonald's which is standing or you can drive

[00:13:32] or you can ride your bike or take the train.

[00:13:34] But any of these places could just be hiding.

[00:13:37] If you're in a war zone like Ukraine, a hiding bomb that can go off just as you're minding

[00:13:42] your own business walking over to say hi to a neighbor.

[00:13:46] This is dastardly, this is disgusting, it is despicable, it is inhumane.

[00:13:52] And there are more than 200, these are just the ones he's found so far.

[00:13:59] Petron has only been working since February, there are so many more to clear.

[00:14:05] But Misha and Petron stayed to clean up in the aftermath they worked 24 hours a day through

[00:14:10] the night, through the day, through the afternoon, through the rain they are working to clear

[00:14:14] these bombs for their city.

[00:14:17] And estimates say that it will take up to 3 years to clean just this city from these

[00:14:22] little gifts left behind from Russia.

[00:14:26] All these bombs are not going to find themselves, and that's the poop cherry on top of the glass

[00:14:32] ice cream sundae.

[00:14:34] You can get your city back, but it's in rubble, it's dust, it's grey, it's rocky, there's

[00:14:38] no life here, there are no kids playing, no birds chirping, but at least the bomb stopped

[00:14:42] falling from the sky.

[00:14:44] Now you have to dig through all of this and dig into the ground to pull up every last

[00:14:47] explosive, intentionally left behind to hurt kill or main the helpers who chose to stay

[00:14:53] and not run.

[00:14:54] This is war edits worst.

[00:14:57] And the rebuilding cannot start until the ground is clear.

[00:15:01] And this is not just in Chimagov, but in the hundreds of cities around Ukraine, and that

[00:15:06] cannot start until the Russian army is gone or rendered ineffective.

[00:15:11] Which I will say.

[00:15:12] There has been some creativity on that front.

[00:15:15] My favorite story last week, were when Russian forces tried to steal 5 million dollars worth

[00:15:20] of farming equipment from John Deere in a Ukrainian city.

[00:15:25] You know the tractor is John Deere.

[00:15:27] Well, they were quickly discovered.

[00:15:30] Whoopsie!

[00:15:31] Turns out there was a remote locking system and built-in GPS in these tractors, so not only

[00:15:37] was the stolen equipment found 700 miles away in Chechnya, but they couldn't even use

[00:15:43] it because the keys would not work after they were remotely locked by John Deere.

[00:15:48] So they found their hiding spot because of the GPS and then they couldn't even use

[00:15:52] the equipment.

[00:15:53] Genius!

[00:15:56] Technology and apps have been pretty great for tracking Russian forces too.

[00:15:59] Which isn't something you want to have happen if you're invading a country.

[00:16:03] When Ukrainian man had been using apples find by feature?

[00:16:07] This is a feature if you're an Android user like myself that locates a device using Bluetooth

[00:16:11] signals that bounce off of other nearby apple devices.

[00:16:15] He is using it to track the movements of Russian troops after they stole his AirPods.

[00:16:21] So not only could he watch his stolen earbuds move on a map, but he could even watch as

[00:16:26] the Russian forces were retreating from an attack in Kiev.

[00:16:29] I think he's the only guy ever to cheer while watching his earbuds run away from him.

[00:16:34] And Apple if you're listening, you're probably not.

[00:16:37] That's Jeff Bezos' job but if you are listening, can you just send this guy some new AirPods

[00:16:43] he's doing his best?

[00:16:46] A researcher in California was similarly able to watch Russian troops invade Ukraine by

[00:16:51] using a combination of Google Maps and radar imagery.

[00:16:55] Check this out.

[00:16:56] Do you know how apps like Waze and Apple Maps, they take out real-time traffic reports?

[00:17:01] Well, when a farming village in the middle of nowhere Ukraine starts having heavy traffic

[00:17:06] reported, particularly when that heavy traffic is bright red for miles at 3 in the morning,

[00:17:13] you can then zoom in using satellite images and watch the marching Russian forces move

[00:17:17] toward cities in small towns.

[00:17:20] Turn left at the next scale field.

[00:17:22] There's unusual traffic ahead.

[00:17:24] Calculating, recalculating.

[00:17:26] But just as heartbreaking, you can also watch these people as they flee their homes and

[00:17:30] cross international borders too.

[00:17:34] Technology does go in both directions.

[00:17:36] Keep Ukraine on your radar.

[00:17:39] Stop scrolling by and if it takes following a little sassy bomb doggie on Instagram to

[00:17:43] keep you connected, please do it.

[00:17:45] So let's end with Little Petron, the puppy who started this whole story.

[00:17:49] And I'm so glad I didn't record this last week because I was planning to because there's

[00:17:53] an update that came out yesterday.

[00:17:56] As of yesterday, President Zelensky himself ordered Petron a medal for his services since

[00:18:01] the Russian invasion from the BBC and I'm going to quote directly from the newspaper

[00:18:06] from Zelensky.

[00:18:08] I want to award those Ukrainian heroes who are already clearing our lands of mines and

[00:18:13] together with our heroes, a wonderful little sapper Petron who helps not only neutralize

[00:18:18] explosives but also teach our children the necessary safety rules and areas where there

[00:18:22] is a mine threat.

[00:18:24] President Zelensky said during a Sunday ceremony, the conference was also attended by Canadian

[00:18:29] Prime Minister Justin Trudeau who was visiting the country on Sunday announcing that Canada

[00:18:33] would be sending more weapons and equipment to help Ukraine.

[00:18:37] As Petron and his owner, who we know is Misha, but his real name is My Halo Ilyev, who are

[00:18:42] presented with their medals.

[00:18:44] He has inspired a number of artwork from fans across the country ranging from illustrations

[00:18:49] to knitted animal replicas of him.

[00:18:53] And among them is a sketch of Petron peeing on a Russian missile wearing his signature

[00:18:57] safety vest.

[00:18:59] I want this in my office and another has Petron in front of two backgrounds.

[00:19:05] One half shows a grassy park next to a ball and the other features the remnants of a

[00:19:11] bond out building.

[00:19:15] And stated on the new voice for Ukraine site, highly recommended if you would like to hear

[00:19:19] from what the people of Ukraine are saying, there's a quote from Misha that I would like

[00:19:24] to end with that I feel can be taken to heart.

[00:19:28] Quote,

[00:19:30] Great heroes come in all sizes.

[00:19:32] Keep true to yourselves, trust in our defenders and in our victory.

[00:19:36] Keep laboring to bring it ever closer wherever you are, whatever you do relentlessly.

[00:19:43] Ends quote.

[00:19:46] So get em Ukraine, give em hell Misha and Petron.

[00:19:50] Ukraine's little bullet.

[00:20:07] So thank you for joining me today on Boilder Beasts.

[00:20:09] I can't thank y'all enough for supporting this show.

[00:20:12] I love the y'all show up and support it and it does truly mean the world to me.

[00:20:17] If there are topics that you're interested in hearing about on the podcast or you know

[00:20:20] of any historical animals, you change the world, animals who help humans, other animals

[00:20:24] standing up for the little guy in big ways.

[00:20:27] Send it in like Kristy did.

[00:20:28] Thanks Kristy.

[00:20:29] Muah.

[00:20:30] Send it in.

[00:20:31] Be WilderBeastsPod at gmail.com, tweet up be WilderPod, be WilderBeasts on Facebook and

[00:20:35] be WilderBeasts on Instagram.

[00:20:37] Or since y'all are patrons, you can just message me directly on the Patreon app.

[00:20:41] If there are bonus things that you'd also like, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[00:20:44] My favorite method, going to be builderbeastsPod.com, tap that little say something button on the

[00:20:49] lower right hand side of the screen and leave me a little voice message and you just say

[00:20:53] stuff and then I get the stuff and it's easy.

[00:20:56] And it's fun to hear your voices.

[00:20:57] I haven't heard those.

[00:20:59] Y'all hear mine every week.

[00:21:01] So flipping the script was a joy for me when I heard one from Alia a couple weeks ago.

[00:21:06] So go ahead and do the same thing.

[00:21:09] Anyway, I'm Melissa McKee-McGrath with Much Stuff Media.

[00:21:12] Now go get curious.

[00:21:13] I got today's information from insider.com, mymodernmet.com, Reddit.com, which is don't know what

[00:21:22] it's helpful as I thought, unless you're into like weird translations and tunicans.

[00:21:28] And there is a particular BBC news piece here that I want to bring your attention to.

[00:21:47] According to up to the minute maps provided by BBC, Russia has taken control of Crimea

[00:21:52] which happened in 2014, likely in preparation for this very event that they are in now.

[00:21:58] And much of the eastern border, 100 or 200 miles into Ukraine from the Russian border

[00:22:02] and much of the south are under full Russian control right now.

[00:22:07] And they are continuing to march to take over Ukraine.

[00:22:10] They bombed a school yesterday in event that killed 60 people who were hiding from the

[00:22:15] attacks.

[00:22:16] Y'all, this superhero dog is something that we can cheer for and be excited about but

[00:22:22] this is not over for the Ukrainian people yet.

[00:22:24] The intentional targeted misinformation attacks and straight up lies in Russian state

[00:22:29] media, a common work tactic to get people on your side for terrible, terrible things that

[00:22:35] we see here too in the United States.

[00:22:38] We'll continue to persuade those who consume Russian media to believe that this isn't real.

[00:22:43] The attacks by Putin using Russian tanks and bombs and guns on the Ukrainian people

[00:22:47] is real and it is not okay.

[00:22:49] So just in case it's not entirely clear where things stand on that front.

[00:22:54] And a powerful interview, mandatory reading I think from Time Magazine with Vladimir Zelinsky

[00:23:00] is in the show notes time.com.

[00:23:04] Give him help, President Zelinsky.

[00:23:06] Links as always are in the description of today's episode.

[00:23:09] Intro music is tiptoed out the back by Dan Lieberwitz interstitial music is by MK2.

[00:23:14] Additional music is provided by Pixabay and FreeSound.org.

[00:23:17] So don't forget like, subscribe, review, share with your curious friends.

[00:23:21] Thanks so much for listening.

[00:23:22] I'll see you next time.

[00:23:47] At Podfix Network on Facebook.

[00:23:50] And make sure to subscribe to Podfix Presents wherever you choose to find podcasts.

[00:23:55] The Podfix Network, Artist Owned and Loved.